GOP Debate Transcript Part 4

(WPTV Staff)

TASH:  Mayor Giuliani, this question to you comes from Marshall Brannon (ph) of St. Petersburg.

     Your immigration plan calls for all immigrants to learn English to gain citizenship.  So why is your campaign airing an ad in Spanish?

     GIULIANI:  The reality is I believe that America is a country that is built around the English language.  If you want to become a citizen, you should demonstrate your facility with English.

     If you know other languages, that is wonderful and that's a wonderful thing and if we have substantial portions of populations that know other languages, I'm very comfortable trying to reach them in both English and in Spanish.

     The core of my plan on immigration is to stop illegal immigration at the border, with a border stat system, with technology, with the increased border patrol.  I believe we can stop the illegal immigration if we stop it right at the border.

     And then we should develop a tamper-proof ID card so that people that want to come into the United States should be allowed to do that.
We have to teach new behavior.  The new behavior is if you want to come into the United States, you have to identify yourself, which, after all, makes the United States like every other country.  Right?

     You can't get into most countries without identifying yourself.
And then if you've got the tamper-proof ID card, you'd be allowed to work, pay taxes, get online, become a citizen, follow the rules.  But at the end of the line, you'd have to be able to read, write and speak English.

     If you speak a second language or a third language or a fourth language, I think that's great for America.  I think America has to be a country that has facility with more languages given the global economy we live in and I think we can be very comfortable with that.

     But the focus has to be on being able to read, write and speak English if you want to be a citizen.

     RUSSERT:  Mayor Giuliani, I'd like to ask a follow-up.  I think many Americans would be surprised by our policy of wet foot-dry foot, that if a Cuban is caught at sea, he or she is sent back.  If one foot touches American land, they're allowed to stay here.

     Why should a Cuban be allowed to stay here, but not a Mexican, not a Guatemalan, not a Venezuelan fleeing Hugo Chavez, someone fleeing North Korea, someone fleeing Iran?  Why a special policy for a Cuban?

     GIULIANI:  Well, of course, this was developed in the 1960s, because the longest dictatorship, I believe, in the modern world is the one of Fidel Castro. 

     The presumption is that if you're fleeing Fidel Castro, given decades and decades of murder, oppression, including, most recently, the way he cracked down on the Combio (ph) group, Brothers to the Rescue, all of these things, there's a presumption in the immigration law that if you're fleeing Fidel Castro, you're fleeing political persecution.

     GIULIANI:  In every other situation, you have to prove it.  If you can prove that you're fleeing political persecution, you'll be accepted.  We've had this exception now for -- what is it -- 40 years.
And I think it's fair one, given the history of Castro, which is a pretty unusual one.  And he is the longest-standing dictator, certainly in this hemisphere, I believe in the world. 

     WILLIAMS:  We have another question from Paul Tash in the audience. 

     TASH:  Governor Huckabee, this questions comes from David Haney
(ph) in Spring Hill, Florida. 

     Chuck Norris, one of your most vocal supporters, recently said that at 72 Senator McCain would be too old to withstand the rigors of the presidency.  Do you agree or disagree? 

     MCCAIN:  Did you get my response? 

     HUCKABEE:  I did hear what Chuck said.  I was standing with him.
And I didn't disagree with him at the time, because I was standing next to him. 

     (LAUGHTER)

     It's as simple as that.  This is a guy who can put this foot on that side of my face, and there's nothing I can do about it. 

     Now, I have said publicly -- in fact, I think it was the debate we had, gosh, back in New Hampshire.  And I publicly said -- and I have said it many times -- I don't think that Senator McCain lacks the rigor and the capacity to be president. 

     And I said, if you look at his mother and see her strength at 95, of all the things we can pick on Senator McCain for, that ain't one of them.  There may be some other things I can pick on Senator McCain about, but not that. 

     And, frankly, I think he's demonstrated in the campaign that he's got the capacity to run.  He and I would have different approaches to be president, but I promise you that is not an issue for me.  It might be from Chuck, but I'm far enough away from him that I feel comfortable in saying that now. 

     WILLIAMS:  Governor, thank you.

     Senator McCain, because it's your mother, 15 seconds. 

     MCCAIN:  Well, now that Sylvester Stallone has endorsed me, I'm sending him over to take care of Chuck Norris right away. 

     (APPLAUSE)

     I'm going to get him. 

     (CROSSTALK)

     MCCAIN:  There you go.  And I'm glad that "Stormin'" Norman, General Schwarzkopf has endorsed me, as well.  I'm very honored.
We'll send him, too.

     WILLIAMS:  We're getting into the final round of questions where it makes staying to time, yellow lights, then red, essential.  And we're going to enforce it. 

     These questions are designed to speak to who you all are in terms of how you counter the attacks against you from your opponents, the weaknesses your opponents, among others, perceive. 

     Mayor Giuliani, we're going to begin with you.  In tomorrow morning's editions of the New York Times, they are out with their endorsements in the New York primary, Senator Clinton on the Democratic side, Senator McCain on the Republican side. 

     In tonight's lead editorial, they say, quote, "The real Mr.
Giuliani, who many New Yorkers came to know and mistrust, is a narrow, obsessively secretive, vindictive man.  His arrogance and bad judgment are breathtaking."

     How can you defend against that in your hometown paper?  How have you changed as a man since this portrait? 

     GIULIANI:  Because I probably never did anything the New York Times suggested I do in eight years as mayor of New York City.  And if I did, I wouldn't be considered a conservative Republican. 

     I changed welfare.

     (APPLAUSE)

     I changed quality of life.  I took on homelessness.  I did all the things that they thought make you mean, and I believe show true compassion and true love for people. 

     I moved people from welfare to work.  When I did that, when I set up workfare, the New York Times wrote nasty editorials about how mean I was, how cruel I was.  I think there's a serious ideological difference.

     And I worked for Ronald Reagan.  And I remember once, when I was in the Justice Department, the New York Times wrote a very laudatory editorial about my boss, Bill Smith, the attorney general.  And Bill was very nervous that Ronald Reagan would get upset that we were off agenda because of the good New York Times editorial. 

     So the reality is that I think there is serious ideological differences.  That probably was some of the nicest language they've written about me in the last six months. 

     WILLIAMS:  Governor Romney, since we've been on the air tonight, one of the other campaigns has faxed us with a charge about you that you've heard before, that Governor Romney, quote, "changes positions with the wind." 

     One of your own advisers admits the perception among all of the candidates on stage is that you have changed over time your positions, that you haven't paid your dues.  The New York Times yesterday called you the most disliked of the five. 

     Your defense on all that? 

     ROMNEY:  Gosh, that's tough on their part, but, you know, I'm not terribly worried about their attacks, frankly.  I'm not going to Washington to make friends with politicians; I'm going to Washington to change things.  So I'm not going to worry about that one. 

     I can tell you that I'm proud of the things that we've been able to do in my state. 

     ROMNEY:  And when people come after me and say, where do you stand on this or where do you stand on that, I can point to a very simple way to find out exactly where I stand, and that is look at my record as governor.

     Every issue that we're talking about in this race that's of a domestic nature, I dealt with as the governor of Massachusetts.  And so on the issue of abortion, for instance, I came down on the side of life consistently as governor in every way I knew how I could do that.
At the end of my term, I got awarded by the Citizens for Life in Massachusetts the leadership award for my service in that regard.

     In terms of marriage, as the governor, I fought same-sex marriage every way I could find a way to do that.  And I actually went to Washington to testify in favor of an amendment to preserve the sanctity of marriage.

     I also have a very clear record with regards to taxes.  I said I was not going to raise taxes, lowered them 19 times.  Balanced the budget four times.  Created surpluses that reestablished a ready (ph) day fund of over $2 billion.

     I have a sound record also with regards to the Second Amendment.
As I indicated, the legislation I signed was legislation worked out between two sides, two very different sides who came together to find ways to make the Second Amendment work in our state.

     So I've got a record that's solid.  I know that now and then my opponents will try and cause questions to arise in people's minds.
But I'm proud of where I stand and I'm happy to show people my record to show it's been consistent.

     WILLIAMS:  Time has expired.

     Senator McCain, we've talked about the issue that arose with the Chuck Norris fight, shall we say, with your mom.  The "L.A. Times"
famously wrote recently that your own temper, "has been an issue for years."

     Do you see that as a possible impediment?

     MCCAIN:  I don't.

     (LAUGHTER)

     I've -- look, I've dealt with people and my friends and colleagues for many, many years.  I think they know me.

     I don't think I would have the support of so many of my colleagues that I work with every day if that -- if that were the case.  And I've been able not only to make close friendships and warm ones over the years, but also across the aisle.

     If you'll indulge me one second, I know this is unusual, but I happen to know Rudy Giuliani.  I happen to know he's an American hero.
And I happen to have gone to New York City after 9/11.  And I'm proud of the way he led this country and united it following 9/11.

     And all these are good people who are running here.  And I respect them.  And I intend to respect them both during and after this campaign is over.

     WILLIAMS:  Governor Huckabee, a Bush administration official said that your use of faith in your campaign gave him a "queasy feeling."

     Your response to that.

     HUCKABEE:  I would say that would be his problem, not mine.  My faith does not give me a queasy feeling.  It gives me a solid core from which I'm able to live every day.

     I don't wake up every day and have to look at a poll to decide what I believe.  My faith grounds me, it gives me a sense of direction and purpose.

     I don't try to impose it on other people.  And I certainly would never use the auspices of government to try to push my faith.

     But for me to run from it, impossible.  It's who I am.  And so if it gives some people a queasy feeling, then they'll have to deal with it.

     The fact is, this country has always been a country where people were able to respect people who had faith.  And frankly, we ought to be able to respect people who don't have any.

     I mean, I don't feel like a person has to share my faith to share my love of this country.  But if a person hates me or dislikes me because of my faith, I'm not sure if they understand what it means to truly be an American, where we can live with each other no matter how different our faith is, but at least we have that understanding that historically faith has been an important part of who this country is.

     Most Americans believe in God.  As I've often said, if you want a president that doesn't, you'll have to pick somebody else.

     WILLIAMS:  Thank you, Governor.

     Congressman Paul, the other campaigns have said to you that their worry is that you won't stick to your party.  If you look at yourself and see yourself some day as unelectable, perhaps you would launch a third party movement and hurt the Republicans.
     PAUL:  My biggest concern is they won't stick to the party principles that Republicans stood for, for so long.  And you know, being conservative and balanced budgets, and limited government, and individual freedom, no, I have no intention of going into another party.

     I've been elected 10 times as a Republican.  I was from a Republican family.  And no, I don't plan to do that.

     I wish they would worry about it, you know, just in case.  But, no, I have no intention of doing that, but it might keep them on their toes.

     But, no, I just think that the Republican Party has a problem because we don't act like Republicans.  And we talked about this earlier, you know, that we're spending money that we don't have, we run up these deficits. 

     PAUL:  We -- instead -- you know, in the old days, we used to be against the Department of Education.  Now we doubled the size of it.
No Child Left Behind -- even the Democrats are running against some of the things that we do, and they used to love that kind of stuff.

     And it used to be that we used to stop the wars.  We stopped the Korean War.  We were supposed to stop the Vietnam War that Democrats started.  And here, we're starting these wars.  So that's why we've lost our way.

     So I don't think it's a matter of me leaving the Republican Party.  If they would look toward what we're doing and the number of people who want to come into the party, they shouldn't be obstructing us.  They should welcome. 

     The party is getting smaller.  Yet they say, oh, you're too strict on the Constitution.  Why shouldn't us, who believe strictly in the constitutional rule of law, be excluded?  That's the way a lot of the people that gather around my candidacy think they're being treated. 

     So I would say, why don't we have a big tent and welcome those of us who believe in liberty and believe in the Constitution?  That's what it's all about, and that's what the Republican Party used to stand for. 

     WILLIAMS:  Congressman, thank you. 

     (APPLAUSE)

     That will have to be the -- before we allow the audience the chance to release their pent-up feelings about tonight, and as we bring tonight's debate to a close, we would like to remind those who missed any or all of tonight's debate, it will re-air on MSNBC tonight at 9:00 p.m. on the West Coast, midnight here in the East. 

     END